tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post109323484577485989..comments2024-03-15T04:02:42.341-04:00Comments on CrimLaw: Defending "Those People"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1121846941699819362005-07-20T04:09:00.000-04:002005-07-20T04:09:00.000-04:00Dear Mr. Lammers --I "surfed" into your blog by wa...Dear Mr. Lammers --<BR/><BR/>I "surfed" into your blog by way of another blog by way of another blog back ad infinitum. I have one question and one kudos for you.<BR/><BR/>The quote that is mentioned in your post as having been previously at the top of your blog page:<BR/><BR/><B>If I choose to defend only the Righteous,<BR/>When the Rigtheous are accused,<BR/>What tools shall I have to defend them? </B><BR/><BR/>Is that an original quote by you? If so, Kudos -- great quote!<BR/><BR/>Also, another kudos (I guess this is a "double kudos" comment) on your four basic principles! While I may (or may not) agree with your theology (you were very gentlemanly to comment on "biblical literalism" vs. "what arose from the oral traditions of the Mediterranean"), you phrased those principles so beautifully that I may just print them out and post them near my home computer's workstation!<BR/><BR/>Thanks for some great thoughts! If you have time to respond, my email is available via my blog profile. I have just started one, not much there yet, am editing some comments/diatribes I wrote previously (and emailed to my long-suffering friends, hence the blog) to make sure they still make sense before I post!<BR/><BR/>I also look forward to see what will happen with the upcoming Supreme Court nominations "re: 'Let the melee begin'" Wheeee! What "fun" that will be.<BR/><BR/>DaceDacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10381805160097486458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1096901172522291092004-10-04T10:46:00.000-04:002004-10-04T10:46:00.000-04:00I coach a trial team at our local law school and t...I coach a trial team at our local law school and the kids there ask me that question all the time. Most of them want to go work for DA's offices and say they couldn't do 'it'. Pisha!!! I say!! I said the same thing. In fact, I remember, as a 1L, reading that criminal defense attorneys could KNOW their client committed the crime, and couldn't tell anyone and I cried!! OH THE INJUSTICE.<br /><br />I'm over it now. If my client is actually guilty, by whosever standard, and they walk out the door at the end of the day, that's not my fault, it's "theirs" and "they" should concentrate on actually finding out facts and stop with the annoying rhetoric about good/evil.<br /><br />That's my story and I'm sticking to it.Mirriam Seddiqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00425678978410432996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093545382067837992004-08-26T14:36:00.000-04:002004-08-26T14:36:00.000-04:00I'm a 2L probable future prosecutor, and have enjo...I'm a 2L probable future prosecutor, and have enjoyed reading your blog since stumbling upon it about 6 months ago. Though I could not myself be a defense attorney--for various personal reasons I won't go into--I applaud smart, hardworking people like you who choose that path. Our legal system can only function well when the rights of the accused are given more than lip service, and having diligent, intelligent defense attorneys helps that happen. I think it would be a very scary society if all the brains/resources were on the state's side. Cheers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093357255076292582004-08-24T10:20:00.000-04:002004-08-24T10:20:00.000-04:00Ken,
Criminal defense work is not for everyone. No...Ken,<br />Criminal defense work is not for everyone. Nor, is it for the faint of heart or naive. Defense attorneys are exposed to the darker side of our communities which not everyone can handle or may want to see. I'm not sure I could do it. Although, I have considered prosecution, but I don't think my family could afford it.<br />I too share your religious convictions and have never heard it coupled with defense work before.<br />"We are responsible for the acts of our agents and those who serve in the government are the agents of everyone in the nation. Every harm which they perpetrate is imputed upon us all."<br />Showing it abstractly or big picture hit home here.<br />Interesting. Thanks for a fresh perspective.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232963415864036324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093345566598949962004-08-24T07:06:00.000-04:002004-08-24T07:06:00.000-04:00I am currently a third year law student about to s...I am currently a third year law student about to start my criminal defense clinic. When I started law school I was not sure I could stomach criminal defense work. Now I am looking forward to it with a passion.<br /><br />I beleive that a good criminal defense lawyer is the cornerstone to putting the bad guys in jail. Society should not be comfortalbe when persons charged with a crime do not get a good defense. Then when a person proclaims they are innocent, how can socity know?<br /><br />On the other hand if a person gets a top notch defense, and is still convicted, society knows that the person is guilty, and should have no qualms about punishment. It is the dilligence of the criminal defense lawyer that allows the system to lock the door and thow away the key. By defending even the most reprehensible people, the defense attorney is doing his part, along with the prosecutor, judge, and police.<br /><br />When anyone asks "how could a defense attorney defend that person?" I reply that only with a good defense, can we be comfortable with locking up the bad guys.<br /><br />I also think that when people think of criminal defense attorneys, they think of people who break or bend the law in order to get thier clients "off." These attorneys also hurt the system, much like when the police plant evidence. I think this perception comes from high profile cases, TV, and movies. All one has to do is spend a day viewing a criminal docket to know that most criminals do not get off on a brilliant move by the defense attorney. The government does win most of the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093319909929312362004-08-23T23:58:00.000-04:002004-08-23T23:58:00.000-04:00Great post. Thanks for sharing your philosophical...Great post. Thanks for sharing your philosophical struggle with us. <br />Your reasons for doing what you do sound similar to Edward Benett Williams'.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271175695509162818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093301743219294352004-08-23T18:55:00.000-04:002004-08-23T18:55:00.000-04:00Chief:
Yes, "to pay the rent" is a cop out. Whic...Chief:<br /><br />Yes, "to pay the rent" is a cop out. Which is why it is disturbing that there are so many out there who accept it as an answer. You need not tell me that there are innocent people out there; I defend them. Anyway, I've always prefered To Kill a Mockingbird over You Only Live Once.<br /><br />Reread the part above about vengeance. However, a Defense attorney cannot limit himself to only overstepping prosecutors. Quite often the problem comes from the Legislature passing charges which can be stacked or courts refusing to apply common sense strictures such as those embodied in the single larceny doctrine in a rational way across all types of charges. All of this must be checked if possible.<br /><br />Actually, I don't usually feel too much of a need to defend myself; I have no problems with my profession. However, somewhere about the 5,000th time the question is asked if you are introspective in the least you put some thought into it. When I write about "a complete defense of the position" I'm talking about defending a thesis not defending the task. This is an intellectual exercise; the fact that I am a Defense attorney is not. It is where I am and I believe that people are meant to be where they find themselves.<br /><br />Jeepers, I probably just scared away all sorts of folks. Good thing I didn't use overtly religious language and say something like "It's not my place to question that to which I was called." <br /><br />Oops.Ken Lammershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15646250142814585354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093299714183941742004-08-23T18:21:00.000-04:002004-08-23T18:21:00.000-04:00I think there are two questions:
1. Why is crimin...I think there are two questions:<br /><br />1. Why is criminal defense work important and necessary? and<br /><br />2. Why does a particular individual do it?<br /><br />As to item 1), a vigorous, attentive defense attorney keeps the innocent out (good!) calls the government on its excesses (good!) gets bad folks out on the street faster or acquitted (bad!) and effectively supports our system of jurisprudence (good, IMO). <br /><br />Part of the job is getting the child molesters back on the street. That's distasteful, surely. But bad defense attorneys are a scourge; they sell out their clients and really are just paying the rent. (Fundamentally dishonest criminal defense attorneys may do better for their clients, but worse for the system, another difficulty.)<br /><br />I have no problem agreeing that we want hard-working people to be criminal defense attorneys. I'm much happier seeing a defense attorney working hard than doing nothing or being incompetent.<br /><br />As to why an individual would want to do the job... bleah. I wouldn't enjoy it; I especially wouldn't enjoy the parade of ungrateful felons who people like Mr. Lammers assist. The number of said felons who make obviously horrible decisions (But I want to testify! I will surely fool those jurors, and that other dude in the suit can't possibly trick me on cross-examination!) are alarming.<br /><br />As to the morality, I think Ken's got it a little scrambled. His almost utilitarian read of the Bible... well, I certainly support utilitarianism, so I shan't complain. Good work on criminal defense is good for society; in this I concur, and I salute CrimLaw's efforts to bring them forth.<br /><br />But, boy, I wouldn't do it. Advocating impossible positions does not sound like fun to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093295476279219712004-08-23T17:11:00.000-04:002004-08-23T17:11:00.000-04:00Ken, do you believe in the "adversary system"--tha...Ken, do you believe in the "adversary system"--that the most effective way to get at the truth is to have advocates for each side fight it out? Or would you prefer a system where the entire court is devoted to the truth first and foremost? Given that we (the US) have chosen an adversary system, I don't think it's appropriate to criticize Defenders for fulfilling their assigned roles. But I've never been convinced that the adversary system is really the way to go. Maybe it's one of those things that in practice is better than the alternatives (worst form except for all the others). What do you think?<br /><br />--Andy BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4098620.post-1093294067550152452004-08-23T16:47:00.000-04:002004-08-23T16:47:00.000-04:00Try reading "The Conscience of a Lawyer" by David ...Try reading "The Conscience of a Lawyer" by David Mellinkoff. It should be required reading for any criminal attorney.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com